Obama OK's 13 more states to enact own emmission standards

[Bu11dogg2]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/us/politics/26calif.html?hp


^^old artcle, but he approved it today.

Say good bye to 93 octane!

[Murphy2012]

I was thinking the same thing....that is not good for high po cars.....Bummers...

[Robk0000]

blah, noone uses 93 anyways.

[Bu11dogg2]

<-- this guy does

[Murphy2012]

Me too, and you should be too Rob!

[Penguin]

This is a monumentally stupid decision by Hussein Obama, way to screw the auto industry that we are supposedly trying to save.

This will be one of many retarded decisions by "The One".

[Bu11dogg2]

a lot of that money was given with the intent that it be used to develop better cars

[mdungelman]

Now that Bush is out the door I'm sure we'll see some more pro-environment regulations. Do you guys think that 93 octane will ever be unavailable?

[mdungelman]

This is a monumentally stupid decision by Hussein Obama, way to screw the auto industry that we are supposedly trying to save.

This will be one of many retarded decisions by "The One".

Time will tell. But I bet you're wrong.

[Penguin]

a lot of that money was given with the intent that it be used to develop better cars

Better in what way? Cars that sell better, or cars that fit the politically motivated axe that Congress and the President have to grind?

Define better for me.

[Penguin]

Time will tell. But I bet you're wrong.

I think time will prove me right on this one. 2009 is going to be a really bad year on it's own. 2010 we will see idiot decisions by an out of control Congress and an inexperienced President muddle an already bad situation with poorly directed and implemented govt.' intervention in a free market system few of them adequately understand.

$825 Billion to be borrowed from whom? Perhaps we shall just fire up the printing presses and run it off in new cash? Never mind the absolute beating the value of the dollar will take if we borrow the money. I don't think anyone will lend it. If ratings agencies were honest US Govt.' bonds should have a junk rating already.

[SF5boost]

93 octane is life

[SF5boost]

vermont is way behind in the times anyways. christ we just barely got fast internet around here

[joel21wolter]

wait wtf? we are losing 93 oct????? when?

[SF5boost]

maybe. think its more of a rumor then anything

[RCKSTR]

maybe. think its more of a rumor then anything
lets hope so...

[Nate8409]

This is not the first recession ever.

There are plans other presidents have used to help get us out, but why learn from the past. We can come up with new ideas that work instead of the proven ones. Change Change Change beep beep beep.

Simplify emissions standards to be a single category called Federal.

Make a single grade of fuel instead of 87, 89, 93 whatever. Make all fuel 93 octane in all states. No more 87 piss water.

[Penguin]

No more 87 piss water.

How about instead we just discontinue making the more expensive and less frequently used 93 octane fuel, and make only 85/87 octane fuel and #1/#2 diesel?

[Jon]

i wonder how well a turbo charged car would run on 85?

[starhm]

it wont...

so what happens when the govt gives big industry money...is it a loan, or are they buying into the company? i need to read up on this. same with the banks...is it a loan or is the govt buying into the banks in the hopes of reaping benefits when everything gets up off its arse. i am not sure what to think yet, just sitting back and wondering if everyone has atleast $3-5,000 a citizen to pay for this crap the way we are going...

[morbidgorilla]

http://fatknowledge.blogspot.com/2005/04/cows-vs-cars-greenhouse-gases.html
I HATE hearing people grouse...WAH wha your car is putting poo-poo air and killing the trees and the ozone
once again the problem is FAT STUPID AMERICANS LOOKING TO PLACE BLAME
no no its not my 99cent cheezburger its the pzero emissions turbo sedan made in japan

[Joe]

Well he said he would change things! who knows if the change will be good or bad though.....

[morbidgorilla]

2 problems one solution
put all the cows in domes to catch the methane burn it for energy
mad max bartertown style

Whadda I know tho I am just some mook with a gorilla for an avatar

[Joe]

2 problems one solution
put all the cows in domes to catch the methane burn it for energy
mad max bartertown style

Whadda I know tho I am just some mook with a gorilla for an avatar


Only if we all get to drive Australian, mustang-esque cars modded out like his!!!!

[morbidgorilla]

http://famousmusclecars.com/images/Mad%20Max%20Car.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/48/187650579_5184be5882.jpg?v=0
I do Bxtch

[Nate8409]

Fair enough. Makes more sense but I would have to say. Any station that discontinues 93 octane fuel needs to have E85. Then I will agree to this.

Nate

How about instead we just discontinue making the more expensive and less frequently used 93 octane fuel, and make only 85/87 octane fuel and #1/#2 diesel?

[SlowSTi13]

i wonder how well a turbo charged car would run on 85?

I will try it tonight and get back to you :lol:

[Murphy2012]

I wouldnt suggest that unless you want some serious knockage...

[-=The Boss=-]

i wonder how well a turbo charged car would run on 85?
Fine is you added enough meth :lol:


I like the idea of lower emissions but doing it be state should result in car manufacturers moving to the lowest denominator and increasing the cost of cars :unamused:

[morbidgorilla]

serious bump in the difficulty in obtaining a license in areas that have well developed mass transit
and I hate to say it but cuz most parents are scared to take the keys away form little Johnny and Suzie stiffer penalties for under 21 offenders
if you start driving a little more paranoid about losing your license you tend to develop a more serious attitude twords driving
and bring back these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQfDB0d6cTI&feature=related
or morurge walk throughs Dont want your kids to see that horror dint let them get a licence till they turn 18

[Nate8409]

More like a serious reduction in power. You can tune for it but you get **** power.

I wouldnt suggest that unless you want some serious knockage...

[Pulski]

Fine is you added enough meth :lol:


I like the idea of lower emissions but doing it be state should result in car manufacturers moving to the lowest denominator and increasing the cost of cars :unamused:

That was my first thought.

"No 93? Guess I'm going water/meth..." :D

[Evoeater]

Meth injection baby!!! The only way out....:nate:

[dayman]

E85

[Penguin]

i wonder how well a turbo charged car would run on 85?

Very poorly, but if we as a nation want to streamline our fuel supply and net the most fuel in a given barrel of crude oil the high octane fuel is going to have to go. A very small percentage of cars sold in this country use turbochargers, and it sucks to be in the minority.:unamused:

If the country were to implement this and you wanted a turbo, you would probably need to buy a diesel. Look at the bright side though, you can run as much boost in a diesel as the block, heads, and internals can withstand. Detonation is almost a non issue.:devil:

[Robk0000]

subarus., volvos, audis bmws and vdubs all use turbos, and i see alot of them everyday.

[im_so_blue]

subarus., volvos, audis bmws and vdubs all use turbos, and i see alot of them everyday.
some nissans use turbos too.
some talons do too... some mitsubishi cars do.
all kinds of companies use turbos..
So basically with the cut down of 93 octane. i think atleast a 1/4 of North Americas car (not suv/truck) industry would die. you would see a quarter of american drivers being forced to take the bus or car pool with friends or workers that have N/A cars. Since with the economy going to hell. Most americans can't even afford a new car right now. which is why your seeing alot of car companies slapping a new thing where if you lose your job after buying a new car from them.. you can take it right back.

Basically imo this is so far Obamas first real F***up that is if its not a rumor. And i for one as a car enthusist and owner of a 93 sucker. not at all pleased.

[Murphy2012]

I wonder how safe all of the governments vehicles, planes, trucks, choppers, etc are to the environment. I bet if we cut down on half of their usage, then we would see quite an increase in the environments health. We need Green Fighter Jets!

[im_so_blue]

I wonder how safe all of the governments vehicles, planes, trucks, choppers, etc are to the environment. I bet if we cut down on half of their usage, then we would see quite an increase in the environments health. We need Green Fighter Jets!
of course they wont do that cause we need those to keep this war going as long as we possiably can.. Duhhhhhh
Sometimes our government pisses me off so much i would wanna move to another country..
But then again all other countries are just as bad if not worse.
Which is why i wish i lived on another planet sometimes. :unamused:
Where i can get away from the scum bags and crooks that are apart of the worlds government.
Get away from the hippies that whine about literally EVERYTHING to the point where we feel we have to change everything even though it messes up the economy and way of life.. and where war doesn't exist.
Some day... some day

[Nate8409]

This has been in the works for years. Look up Pratt and Whitneys new engine they are going to be releasing in the next couple of years.

They are in final stages of their geared jet engine. Which can save huge amounts of fuel and millions in fuel for each plane these engines are put in.

Obama's current plan is to double spending on Government vehicles so that they are "green."

I wonder how safe all of the governments vehicles, planes, trucks, choppers, etc are to the environment. I bet if we cut down on half of their usage, then we would see quite an increase in the environments health. We need Green Fighter Jets!

[Subygirl8330]

they better not get rid of it! *grrr*

[Penguin]

subarus., volvos, audis bmws and vdubs all use turbos, and i see alot of them everyday.

You may notice many of them every day, but the overall market share of those companies is fairly small. Remember we're talking about a theoretical situation here where the nation had to make a choice, and the 85% + of people that don't buy premium fuel because their vehicle doesn't need it would sell you and your turbocharged car right up the river. In my area I can go days and never see a BMW, Audi, Volvo, or even a Subaru or VW.

As it is now there is a market demand for higher octane fuel, so it is supplied at a higher price reflecting the further refining/additives and the inconvenience to fuel suppliers to supply multiple grades.

[FREAK]

wtf! wow

[dayman]

completely unrelated question: Do they sell octane booster by the barrel? :p

[im_so_blue]

actually i was reading about octane booster last night and found a article that said its bad for the engine to continously add it.
So even if you could say buy by the barrel full it wouldn't help us in the long run with out nukin the engine

[etaks99rs]

we should get rid of mid grade and only have 87 and 93. who gets 89 anyway?

[Penguin]

we should get rid of mid grade and only have 87 and 93. who gets 89 anyway?

Beats the hell out of me. Since I got rid of my unreliable LGT and bought the Tundra I have been running 85/87 octane. 89 octane is pointless.

[dayman]

they're not going to get rid of 93.

it might get a lot more expensive though

[etaks99rs]

they went from 93 to 91 at a lot of places. I have to drive to another town to get 93.

[Murphy2012]

That is just because its not ethanol added gas, Tom. Most places north of laconia dont have it anymore. Its hard to find at least.

[etaks99rs]

I still don't know a single person that uses mid-grade. why would anyone put 89 in their car?

[Bu11dogg2]

Turbo's were intially introduced to give airplanes better fuel economy and flight distance.

When used and tuned properly a turbo increases fuel economy. IMHO every car should be turbo charged with a map that leaves a lot on the table (think Audi)

Take a base 1.3 motor... probably around 110HP.

Add a turbo and intercooler with VVT and bam you get 200HP and still decent fuel economy when needed.

[morbidgorilla]

I use mid grade. I found my car seems to like it the most

[Murphy2012]

Mid grade is actually really good. I ran it in all of my old vehicles, never used regular.

[Joe]

Turbo's were intially introduced to give airplanes better fuel economy and flight distance.

When used and tuned properly a turbo increases fuel economy. IMHO every car should be turbo charged with a map that leaves a lot on the table (think Audi)

Take a base 1.3 motor... probably around 110HP.

Add a turbo and intercooler with VVT and bam you get 200HP and still decent fuel economy when needed.

Turbos are great because they allow you to run a smaller motor for the efficiancy, but to get into it in case you need extra power. That being said, if you are into boost, you are using more fuel. not as much as if you didn't have the turbo, but more then when you are out of the boost. only way to make the higher compression air burn hotter and faster for the extra power.

What Subie needs to do is get off their rears with gearing! a 5 spd on the highway shouldn't be at 3K RPMs doing 70. it needs to be right around 1800-2000 rpms to maximize efficiancy and keep fuel consumption down. Easy solution for this: 6spd.

[dayman]

or just a tall 5th. I've never understood why the manual subarus didn't get a cruising 5th.

[Bu11dogg2]

Turbos are great because they allow you to run a smaller motor for the efficiancy, but to get into it in case you need extra power. That being said, if you are into boost, you are using more fuel. not as much as if you didn't have the turbo, but more then when you are out of the boost. only way to make the higher compression air burn hotter and faster for the extra power.

What Subie needs to do is get off their rears with gearing! a 5 spd on the highway shouldn't be at 3K RPMs doing 70. it needs to be right around 1800-2000 rpms to maximize efficiancy and keep fuel consumption down. Easy solution for this: 6spd.


I agree about the gearing

In my Audi at 85MPH in 6th i'm at 2800 RPMs, in a suby you're at 3500RPMS :unamused:

Even the STi is pretty bad... you need 3rd for 60.

I can hit 40 in first.

[jonny-rockets]

why is everyone worked up about this regulations thing? losing 93? i doubt it will happen here.

it looks from the article he's letting states regulate more things, not the fed, which is how things should be.

hardcore green states like cali will sure have stupid emissions standards, but NH doesn't exactly jump on imposing laws restricting its citizens like cali does.

i doubt that law would ever make it here.

[Bu11dogg2]

why is everyone worked up about this regulations thing? losing 93? i doubt it will happen here.

it looks from the article he's letting states regulate more things, not the fed, which is how things should be.

hardcore green states like cali will sure have stupid emissions standards, but NH doesn't exactly jump on imposing laws restricting its citizens like cali does.

i doubt that law would ever make it here.

John Lynch is all about the green initiative

[LordBass]

FWIW I use 89 during those two humid July weeks when my Impreza pings on 87. And put 89 as the last tank in my wife's Pathfinder. It "recommends premium fuel for maximum performance", but missing a few of its 270 ponies won't matter in January, or ever.

I'm sad that policy weenies never pushed diesel as an interim way to reduce fuel use and enhance US-sourced biofuel. Diesel makes a lot of sense in the near term. A shop in Dover now has a biodiesel pump, but with so few diesels on the road it won't much matter.

[Murphy2012]

What is the bio diesel running at the moment?

[Bu11dogg2]

I used to work with a guy that had an 81 Mercedes turbo diesel that ran off used vegtable oil.

He hasn't paid for gas in years and get's a nice french fry smell every start up :)

[LordBass]

Simply Green (http://www.seacoastbiofuels.com/) says "biodiesel" is $2.59 [probably B20], and B100 is $3.39.

[Penguin]

Turbo's were intially introduced to give airplanes better fuel economy and flight distance.

When used and tuned properly a turbo increases fuel economy. IMHO every car should be turbo charged with a map that leaves a lot on the table (think Audi)

Take a base 1.3 motor... probably around 110HP.

Add a turbo and intercooler with VVT and bam you get 200HP and still decent fuel economy when needed.

Yes.... I think I should get some gubment' subsidies to make my Tundra more powerful.....er I mean fuel efficient.:lol:

5.7L DOHC 32V V8 with two turbos or a supercharger should be really fuel efficient shouldn't it?:hide:

[Joe]

Sure it would be :rofl:

Thats the reason dodge came up with their Multi displacement tech. so those big V-8s could get 22 MPG on the highway....... as long as you did 65 and there are no hills...... and you stay off the skinny pedal....

[Penguin]

Sure it would be :rofl:

Thats the reason dodge came up with their Multi displacement tech. so those big V-8s could get 22 MPG on the highway....... as long as you did 65 and there are no hills...... and you stay off the skinny pedal....

The multi displacement crap doesn't seem to work very well does it.

And putting forced induction on my Tundra would make it really efficient by the way. Really efficient at burning gasoline, and incinerating tires.:devil:

[Joe]

The multi displacement crap doesn't seem to work very well does it.

And putting forced induction on my Tundra would make it really efficient by the way. Really efficient at burning gasoline, and incinerating tires.:devil:


The Multi displacement is a great idea, but impractically for such a big vehicle and for lead-foot Americans.

As for the tires and gasoline, someone's gotta burn it up!!!:spin:

[im_so_blue]

i think we got a bio diesel pump station in burlington some where dont know where.

I seen in Salem MA since i started going there 3 years ago for halloween they got a Electric Car charging station

[Bu11dogg2]

An 8cyl that can run on 4cyl is best bet.

The problem is they can't make gasoline atomize any better with current technology.

If they could make better atomization fuel economy would drop significantly

[Murphy2012]

There are many 8's that shut down 2 or 4 cylinders now....

[Bu11dogg2]

no way....

[joel21wolter]

I agree about the gearing

In my Audi at 85MPH in 6th i'm at 2800 RPMs, in a suby you're at 3500RPMS :unamused:

Even the STi is pretty bad... you need 3rd for 60.

I can hit 40 in first.



I can hit 40 in first, 65 in seconds. 80 mph is like 3,100 rpm. not too bad

[joel21wolter]

also i saw 92 oct for the first time at a gas station in somerworth

[Murphy2012]

no way....

You serious? Of course there are...

[Nate8409]

Yes they can. It is called direct injection. Much higher fuel pressures and better atomization.

An 8cyl that can run on 4cyl is best bet.

The problem is they can't make gasoline atomize any better with current technology.

If they could make better atomization fuel economy would drop significantly

[Bu11dogg2]

I'm talking 100-150 miles per gallon.

Probably not possible due to molecule size and other factors.

More effecient transmissions are probably a good area to research too.

Cut drivetrain loss down to 10% or less and fuel economy would skyrocket.

Then again, weight will always be a factor.

[Nate8409]

When you cut weight you cut safety. When you cut weight you increase cost.

Everyone and their brother out there with families are looking for safe cars. You want to get back to very good fuel economy.

No more AWD on any vehicles. RWD and FWD only. They want to take away 93 octane and then raise fuel economy. Those two do not coincide. You can run an engine hotter and with more compression on 93 octane.

Green emissions screw cars for fuel economy. You need to have all kinds of alternative systems in place to help burn unburnt fuel better and then more cats.

You will see more and more turbo engines come about in the next years I think with this kind of stuff happening.

[Bu11dogg2]

I agree.... you would think that the technology of today would include metals that are lighter and stronger.

[Nate8409]

Lots of cars out there today are using large amounts of aluminum for mechanical parts. Not uber cost effective though since Alum is pricey.

I agree.... you would think that the technology of today would include metals that are lighter and stronger.