open source tuning in NH

[joel21wolter]

Alright so as many of you know my current set up is:
VF30 Turbo
565cc pink injectors
Megan Catless turboback
APS uppipe
Sti TMIC
K&N CAI
Wallbro 255 FP

I am currently using a Cobb Accessport and running the VF30 map off the website. The VF30 map is supposed to be for a VF30, TBE, and 565cc injectors. The map also says stock intake and intercooler. I was going to install my stock Intake but apparently I am missing a piece. So i left the K&N CAI in. Also I could install my stock intercooler back on but idk why I should.

It runs great and i beat my friends 07 v8 stang today on the highway. My boost gauge though is reading 9 psi max though. I plugged in my accessport and watched the boost on that and the max it read was 10.6 psi. The only thing my check engine light comes on for is because I don't have a o2 sensor in the DP. I need to get a new one but right now its all plugged up fine.

So I am thinking that the problem must be with the map I am running. Do you think I should change those two parts back to stock or maybe go somewhere to get a open source tune or something? I would like to go open source sometime soon when I have enough time to really learn how to tune it myself.

Anyone have any advice what to do. Like i said the car is running great and we didnt see any boost leaks when doing the install last weekend. Didnt look to hard though and maybe I will check that out this weekend.

Thanks, Joel

[Robk0000]

there are several members on this site that have experiance with opensource tuning, from what i have heard they have really good feedback and know what they are doing. i would suggest posting a question under tech specifically in regards to help with tuning.

I will let those specific people chime in for details though.

[joel21wolter]

ahah alright. But also I want to know if there is anything I should do. Sorry kind of misleading in the thread name

[Bu11dogg2]

I wouldn't be hammering on it until you get a good tune....


I'll move this to the tuning forum and i'm sure someone will be willing to help you :)

A good start would be to buy an OBII cord and download a logging program.

Run a few logs and have the guys here take a look

[Robk0000]

i would recommend that you swap the stock intake back on, the stock intake is capable of handling 350+ hp and is setup in the most air friendly area on the vehicle.

Im have no idea when it comes to troubleshooting FI motors, but i have seen boost problems cause by intake systems.

[joel21wolter]

I wouldn't be hammering on it until you get a good tune....


I'll move this to the tuning forum and i'm sure someone will be willing to help you :)

A good start would be to buy an OBII cord and download a logging program.

Run a few logs and have the guys here take a look


AHH always so much to be done. I just want a month or so just being able to RELAX and drive. ahah so you think i should really keep it easy with the car for now? AHH i hate having to do that but i will if needed

[joel21wolter]

also do you think it could be because their is no o2 sensor and the ecu is trying to protect the engine? I can clear the code with my accessport but it keeps coming back every few days.

[-=The Boss=-]

Im have no idea when it comes to troubleshooting FI motors, but i have seen boost problems cause by intake systems.
How?

To the low boost my guess would be mechanical.

[Bu11dogg2]

also do you think it could be because their is no o2 sensor and the ecu is trying to protect the engine? I can clear the code with my accessport but it keeps coming back every few days.


Did you not have a bung in your DP?

Usually with COBB AP tunes you still use your O2

[-=The Boss=-]

also do you think it could be because their is no o2 sensor and the ecu is trying to protect the engine? I can clear the code with my accessport but it keeps coming back every few days.
That's not how the ECU works.

Whats the WG spring pressure?

[joel21wolter]

Whats the WG spring pressure?

how would i check that? I know how to check wastegate duty with my accessport but i am still learning about the car

[kgj996]

If you are only hitting wg boost pressure then the stock bcs may be bad. Mine went at about 50k and I replaced it with a Perrin ebcs that wired right up but it needed to be tuned for it.

This is the main problem with the cobb ap is that you can't data log and actually see whats going on unless you read it as you drive and that is kind of dangerous. You can also go to a manual boost controller but you need to be careful with it because the ecu can't cut boost if it senses knock or missfire. As for the intake and intercooler, the intake is very important to the cobb map because of the maf table settings. Unless you have a wide band o2 and some way to log with the ap, you can't safely run an intake exept for cobbs, without a protune.

The intercooler is safe to run without a tune because it will only run safer with a cooler charge of air. A tune will be able to take advantage of the intercooler and squeeze more power out of it, but it is safe with out the tune.

If you are interested in tuning your car, get a wide band and a tactrix cable and I can show you how to tune. There are a few other poeple here looking to do the same thing but still don't have the parts to tune with. Let me know if you have any more Qs.

[joel21wolter]

alright thanks a lot. so should i get a bcs, wide band, and tactrix cable? How about another o2 sensor for the DP?

[kgj996]

Do you still have your rear o2 sensor in? The dp shouldn't have a factory o2 sensor in it. If it is an aftermarket dp then it might have the bung for a wide band. Is the dp catted? If so, is the bung before or after the catt? A wide band has to be after the turbo but before any catt.

[-=The Boss=-]

alright thanks a lot. so should i get a bcs, wide band, and tactrix cable? How about another o2 sensor for the DP?
Slow down there champ :lol: Only get the tactrix right now and we can wrok our way up to the rest.

[-=The Boss=-]

If you are only hitting wg boost pressure then the stock bcs may be bad. Mine went at about 50k and I replaced it with a Perrin ebcs that wired right up but it needed to be tuned for it.

You can test this by configuring it without the BCS inline just direct to the WG from the turbo and see what boost you hit then ;)

This is the main problem with the cobb ap is that you can't data log and actually see whats going on unless you read it as you drive and that is kind of dangerous. You can also go to a manual boost controller but you need to be careful with it because the ecu can't cut boost if it senses knock or missfire.
A MBC is the worst idea ever. Subaru spent $1,000s to creat a fully tunable system use it. The AP is fine and StreetTuner is now free also use that


As for the intake and intercooler, the intake is very important to the cobb map because of the maf table settings. Unless you have a wide band o2 and some way to log with the ap, you can't safely run an intake exept for cobbs, without a protune.

+1 (except the protune part tune it your self)

The intercooler is safe to run without a tune because it will only run safer with a cooler charge of air. A tune will be able to take advantage of the intercooler and squeeze more power out of it, but it is safe with out the tune.

If you are interested in tuning your car, get a wide band and a tactrix cable and I can show you how to tune. There are a few other poeple here looking to do the same thing but still don't have the parts to tune with. Let me know if you have any more Qs.
Solid advice.


how would i check that? I know how to check wastegate duty with my accessport but i am still learning about the car
get one of these http://www.mityvac.com/


to everyone read this -> http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31625

[kgj996]

^^ IDK if a mbc is the worst idea ever, but if you know what you are doing, it is the easiest way to get fast, consistent boost and hold it at rpm. With a solid knock feedback set up you shouldn't have to worry about having the ecu to pull boost any how. A stand alone ebc is the best option like an aem true boost.

Just my opinion.

[-=The Boss=-]

but you are removing the ECU ability to remove boost. You essentially take the BCS out of the equation. It might not be the worst idea ever but its not the best option to control boost. It sounds like there is a mechanical issue that needs to be resolved not a band aide

[joel21wolter]

Do you still have your rear o2 sensor in? The dp shouldn't have a factory o2 sensor in it. If it is an aftermarket dp then it might have the bung for a wide band. Is the dp catted? If so, is the bung before or after the catt? A wide band has to be after the turbo but before any catt.

No i dont have a rear o2 sensor because we couldnt get it off when it was attached to the car and had to cut it :/. The DP is catless. It is a megan racing belmouth DP

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/jfwolter/UPGRADING032.jpg

[joel21wolter]

and sorry i still dont understand how to test the WG

[kgj996]

The rear o2 sensor is pretty critical. I would replace that first and go from there.

[-=The Boss=-]

and sorry i still dont understand how to test the WG
Dont worry about that right now :spin: but...you conect tha ttool I linked to the WG hose and pump till the WG moves. Then read the dial at what PSI the WG moves.

Get an O2 (the rear is useless but) you need to plug the hole and without it you will throw CELs all day.

[-=The Boss=-]

The rear o2 sensor is pretty critical. I would replace that first and go from there.
the fact it plugs the hole is critical but for the ECU to run its not. the front yes the rear is there just to keep an eye on the cat ;)

[kgj996]

Actually the rear o2 is used for idling and some closed loop fueling. the o2 in the up pipe is the useless one in the system.

[Bombay994]

I can prob help here, he has a catless DP, rear 02 completely removed, cut the thing right out knowing the cobb tune would disable it. Short of looking at a datalog as kevin mentioned earlier, no accurate diagnosis can be made. Joel pm me, I can help log the car to see whats happening.

[kgj996]

^^ Thanks man. That is the only way to diagnose this problem accurately. Log your wgdc along with target boost and the other common parameters. (rpm's, load, boost...)

[-=The Boss=-]

Actually the rear o2 is used for idling and some closed loop fueling. the o2 in the up pipe is the useless one in the system.
Wrong but :)

There is no O2 in the up there is one in the manifold. Sensor in the up is a heat sensor. The one in the manifold (that controls all that **** you think is done in the rear) ;)

[kgj996]

Wrong but :)

There is no O2 in the up there is one in the manifold. Sensor in the up is a heat sensor. The one in the manifold (that controls all that **** you think is done in the rear) ;)

Stock 02-05 wrx 2.0l have o2s in the up pipe to monitor the egt for the cat in the stock up pipe. You are right, it just reads the exhuast temp. But the rear is used at idle and isn't just for the cat.

If you can show me the ecu logic behind the rear o2 sensor that says it is just for a cat cel and isn't used for anything else, I will believe you.

[-=The Boss=-]

How many 2.0l's have you tuned and data logged again?
None they cant make any power :rofl:


I deal with 2.5s and I have tuned quite a few ;)

[kgj996]

If you haven't logged or tuned a 16bit ecu then you aren't much help to the question here. Lets keep this ot please.

[Bombay994]

None they cant make any power :rofl:


I deal with 2.5s and I have tuned quite a few ;)


Great then GTFO

I'm sick of this nasiocish bulisth

[joel21wolter]

Yeah the front o2 sensor is not in Uppipe. I watched Steve at Range Automotive remove my uppipe and he explained to me that it was just a heat sensor.

[kgj996]

^^^That's right. Get some data logs and post them up and we can see what is going on. I still think if you are only getting 8-10 psi, the ebc is not working properly.

Did you drill out the restrictor pil in the boost line going to the wg? I think it is one of the requirements for the cobb maps

[joel21wolter]

^^^That's right. Get some data logs and post them up and we can see what is going on. I still think if you are only getting 8-10 psi, the ebc is not working properly.

Did you drill out the restrictor pil in the boost line going to the wg? I think it is one of the requirements for the cobb maps

I have no idea what a restrictor pil is and I have read the map I am running a few times and never heard anything about that.

[joel21wolter]

alright well I am heading to bed for the night. Real tired Ill take it easy on the wrx tomorrow and hopefully we can have this worked out by the end of the weekend.

[kgj996]

Never mind. The pil is a small restrictor in the boost line that goes from the turbo to the wg. The older maps required you to drill the whole out to a bigger size, but I just read the notes to the newer maps and it requires the pil to be stock size. I would just double check that there is a brass pill in this line to the wg. If it is missing or in the wrong place, it could be causing your problem. I'll try to find a pic to post to give you a better idea.

[-=The Boss=-]

Great then GTFO

I'm sick of this nasiocish bulisth
:rolleyes: thanks for your help; I have spent more time under a car than you have behind the wheel. I was wrong once about the placement of the 02 you GTFO


To kgj996 I had the same idea about the pill but I bet they installed the T the wrong way; without any pill he wouldn't be making the boost levels he is. For a pic I linked one earlier; page 6 -> http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/How%20Subaru%27s%20Factory%20Boost%20Control%20Sys tem%20Works%20v1.09.pdf

[Bombay994]

My bad boss, think you may be right, after thinking about it the pill was not something I double checked. Hopefully this is the fix we need, i'm not to arrogant to deny that fact that this may have been overlooked.


...I left too early after this install was finished, no road test, no logging, not the best of siutations.

I'm going to help out as best I can, a few logs should show us what we need to know

[subarude]

i've seen alot of people have this issue and its either the wrong size restrictor pill for that turbo or the restrictor pill is hooked up backwards meaning on the wrong side of the turbo

[subarude]

For those who use the AP:

#1: Today, 10:37 AM
What's Cobb cooking up?

dan@cobbtuning.com (dan@cobbtuning.com)
Title: New Member
Posts: 13
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Report Post Send a private message to dan@cobbtuning.com (dan@cobbtuning.com) Find all posts by dan@cobbtuning.com (dan@cobbtuning.com) Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Hello everyone!

So here at Cobb we've been planning and building this new software to incorporate one of the most demanded functions for the AccessPORT. And that is Data Logging! To simply use this new ability all you need to do is update the AccessPORT using the AP Updater which can be found at: CobbTuning.com - Subaru Firmware:

You can find all these new abilities under the "Monitor" selection on the main menu. To retrieve the Data Log you'll need to use AccessPORT Manager which you can find on the link above. The logs are located under "View" -> "Advance" and from there the new window will show you every log recorded. After high lighting which log files you want, right click and download.


This is for the version 2 AccessPORTs only for all makes/models we support.

What's new in this firmware release:
1. Subaru: User Dump feature that allows the user to download their stock ROM if the AccessPORT does not recognize the vehicle.
2. Dongle firmware updated to version 0.42. This process will automatically update the next time the AccessPORT is connected to a car.
3. Added 2008-2009 USDM Impreza WRX STi, 2008-2009 USDM Subaru Legacy GT (Auto), 2008-2009 USDM Subaru Legacy GT (Manual), 2008-2009 USDM Subaru Legacy GT (Spec B), & 2009 USDM Impreza 2.5GT (Auto) support.
4. Boost reading on the AccessPORT used to cap out at 18.4 psi. This is now fixed.
5. Datalogging feature has been added to the AccessPORT.
6. Reorganized menu system for more intuitive navigation.


Also don't forget about the FREE AccessTuner Race software we currently offer on our website! (forewarned it's intended for advance tuning users only). Have fun and happy tuning

CobbTuning.com - Home Page
dan@cobbtuning.com (dan@cobbtuning.com)
801.713.0035

[joel21wolter]

mmhmm ill check that ouT

[subarude]

hope it helps ;)

[wagonmafia]

way back in the day when i put in my mbc i lost mu pill restrictor. now when i try to run without the mbc i hit 9psi. check out scoobymods.com.

i thought my car was f--d up for the longest time but thats all it was. no restrictor pill. easy fix is a mbc but you have to be very carefull with it. ive had mine for 2 1/2 years now and ive had no issues.

[-=The Boss=-]

as far as pills go I find the best replacement to be MIG tips worked for me.

I don't like MBC 1bit but that aside I don't like off the shelf tunes for something like a turbo swap too many things to go wrong.

[joel21wolter]

as far as pills go I find the best replacement to be MIG tips worked for me.

I don't like MBC 1bit but that aside I don't like off the shelf tunes for something like a turbo swap too many things to go wrong.

Yeah thats why I was thinking of maybe getting an open source tune. But we will see. Anything think I should put the TD04 and stock injectors back on for the winter and run the stage 2 cobb map and then swap it back to the VF30 in the spring?

[kgj996]

As long as you are running the ots map from cobb, you should be fine. It is tuned very safe and rich. I would just take it easy on the car for the winter and not beat the snot out of it until you get the hardware to open source tune it and data log.

[joel21wolter]

but you think i should put the stock intake in this weekend?

[kgj996]

Yes the stock intake is a good idea. If you want the short ram intake sound, I can make you an intake box cover that holds the filter in the stock box, but it eliminates the rest of the intake track before the box. Here is a pic of it. This is after a few miles and a crappy spray can paint job. It worked very well on my car with a 16g.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg45/kgj996/DSC01577.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg45/kgj996/DSC01579.jpg

[RCKSTR]

thats a pretty good setup:) I've never seen anything like that before

[joel21wolter]

mhm that sounds cool. How much would that cost?

[kgj996]

If anyone wants one it took me about 15 minutes to make and I don't mind making a few more.

[joel21wolter]

I would like that. so it would work safe with my setup?

[RCKSTR]

yep, you could even get a better filter if you wanted

[kgj996]

It's just as safe as using the stock intake, but it will give you the nice turbo sound like a short ram. I will make them for $20 with paint. That just covers materials.

[joel21wolter]

alright sounds good. Want me to meet you up sometime soon and pay beforehand or after its done? Do you need my stock intake to make that?

[kgj996]

Yeah I need your intake box to make it. If you can get it to me by Monday, I can make it by Wednesday. I'll be in Dover Sunday if that works for you.

[joel21wolter]

I can meet you whenever is easiest for you. just let me know and I should be able to make it

[kgj996]

Cool. I'll pm you tomorrow when I know where I will be.

[joel21wolter]

alright sounds good

[Bu11dogg2]

nice!

[subarude]

not to step on your toes but why would you go with an air cleaner box like that your going to be taking in all that hot engine bay air.i would just go with a stock air box and and just remove your silencer and plug the hole where the silence goes back into the engine bay.that way your a least getting the cooler air from inside the fender and you'll still have the turbo spooling and bov noise :D

[kgj996]

I have logged with the box lid delete, a short ram, and a stock intake, and the box delete runs about the same air temp readings as the stock intake because the box is tucked in the corner of the engine bay by the fender cut outs and is facing down. The short ram showed a good increase in intake air temps, but these are all inaccurate to the air temps actually going into the manifold after the intercooler.

[Robk0000]

there is something wrong with my boost gauge... it goes from idle 7.4 mfs or somthing and goes down to 0 then back up to 12? 12 being full boost.

i think it means 7.4 as negative but, i cant tell. Its impossible to watch the gauge while driving. I need to log it, but i dont have that damn program. i wonder if i have to use the plx program?

[Robk0000]

found the logger, i will try and post my results if i get it to work.

[kgj996]

That's why I don't spend lots of cash on gauges because you can't tune with them. What program are you using to log?

[Robk0000]

I dont have the remotes hooked up to the gauges at the moment because the interior needs to be put back together, i know i can view the line graph which is suppose to be more steady. Im going to try the plx specific program, i havent plugged the car in yet, im going to try monday when the weather is nicer.

[Bu11dogg2]

That's why I don't spend lots of cash on gauges because you can't tune with them. What program are you using to log?


I agree.

They're nice to look at and all... but not accurate.:lol:

[kgj996]

Any update on finding a shop or tuner?

[joel21wolter]

well i am hoping that nate can help me out. if not then i will be going to dent sport this weekend. about the MAF they said that i dont need to put it in the IC piping because my turbo isnt big enough to make a difference. I would like being able to do that to the BPV but idk if i should.

[kgj996]

I would go blow through just because it's a lot more accurate, no matter what turbo you are running. Either way, let me know and I can give you a hand.

I wouldn't change the bpv unless you can plumb it before the maf.

[joel21wolter]

well I am going down to Dent Sport in the morning so it looks like i will be using my current MAF how it is. I am hoping that after this tune I wont do any more performace upgrades for a while. hoping to get some suspension work done next

[Kevin]

how did it go?

[Evoeater]

I cant picture spending like $700 on 3 gauges like the defi gauges...although they are pretty crazy with the sweep....

[Jon]

i got the defi controller and boost for Christmas a couple years ago. had planned on buying more the go along with it, but that never happened. Now i just have a REALLY expensive boost gauge. booooo

[joel21wolter]

It went alright. I had a little problem because I had to wait half an hour for them to show up because of some miscommunication and the area around dent is pretty sketchy. The whole boarded/abandon warehouses where kinda scary but inside Dent it isnt so bad. Did see a few Hobos though. Matt at dent is a good guy. He tuned for my MBC so the PSI at the end was set for 16 psi. I didn't mind that because i don't want to **** my engine any more than it already is. He said for a car with the miles it has it feels really nice though. Anyway my car was dynod for a max of 268.4 WHP. The tune feels a lot better than the AP tune and now I can save some fuel too. A little less numbers than I was expecting but I did manage to beat a Challenger SRT-8 on the way home :) (And some pretty ****ty VTEC Honda but really funny story behind that race)

[joel21wolter]

on the back of the civic i raced was a sticker saying "I Vtech, do you?" So at a stop like thrasher679 took a piece of paper and wrote "I Vtech this" and put in up to my rear window so he could see it. He got all mad and was riding me real hard but when it got to two lines and flew ahead and he tried to keep up but failed miserably.

[joel21wolter]

And dent did have some pretty sick cars inside. Had some Gallant with an engine that could support like 1200 WHP and had a sick 400+ WHP Sti, Had a awesome rally bugeye and 3 Evos where there being worked on

[kgj996]

Any graphs? What was your target afr he tuned to?

[SubyChick88]

go to EFI Logics (www.efilogics.com) and they will take care of you.

[EFI Logics]

Are you still having issues?

My first suggestion would be to check the restrictor pill, running WG boost pressure almost always defaults to the pill missing in the line before the "T" to the wastegate. AFter that, if the restrictor pill is there, take your BCS out and blow compressed air through it, it will only blow one way, so try both ports, 99% of the time, this will wake up the BCS if it has siezed up.

If all this fails, get a new STOCK BCS, do not get an aftermarket BCS for the 16bit ECU's, they are not design for this ecu and sometimes they are extremely difficult to control boost and tune under extreme load. I would not, nor would I ever suggest an MBC on a street car, you are essentially dumbing the car down and not allowing it to save itself if something were to happen (Extreme cold, overboosting, etc).

I didn't read the whole thread, but hope that helps.

Chris

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EFI Cars:
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[-=The Boss=-]

Are you still having issues?

My first suggestion would be to check the restrictor pill, running WG boost pressure almost always defaults to the pill missing in the line before the "T" to the wastegate. AFter that, if the restrictor pill is there, take your BCS out and blow compressed air through it, it will only blow one way, so try both ports, 99% of the time, this will wake up the BCS if it has siezed up.

If all this fails, get a new STOCK BCS, do not get an aftermarket BCS for the 16bit ECU's, they are not design for this ecu and sometimes they are extremely difficult to control boost and tune under extreme load. I would not, nor would I ever suggest an MBC on a street car, you are essentially dumbing the car down and not allowing it to save itself if something were to happen (Extreme cold, overboosting, etc).

I didn't read the whole thread, but hope that helps.

Chris

Wow solid advice with a good level of competence. Rare to see from a tuner :)

[joel21wolter]

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/jfwolter/UPGRADING066.jpg

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/jfwolter/UPGRADING067.jpg

[joel21wolter]

its not that great but I am real happy with it

[kgj996]

That looks like a nice, smooth tune! Congrats.

[joel21wolter]

thanks man

[Kevin]

Thats pretty high #'s for a car like yours on there dyno just so you know.
a gt30r sti only put down 350whp at there dyno day a while back.

[joel21wolter]

so its a low reading dyno?

[Bu11dogg2]

Yes,

on most other dyno's you'de read in the 300's


With great power comes great responsibilty...

[joel21wolter]

blah blah blah i know i know....

[Bu11dogg2]

:lol: I'd be dead if I was 19 with 300WHP :lol:

[RCKSTR]

thats the power I was making with the vf39 on a "heartbreaker" dyno.
on other dynos I made 294 with allmost identicle mods list:)

[SubyChick88]

:lol: I'd be dead if I was 19 with 300WHP :lol:

I'm not dead yet!! I got my 300hp when I was 19 :) Some people can survive it.

[joel21wolter]

ahah well im 18 so i got another five months of life

[SubyChick88]

ahah well im 18 so i got another five months of life

I would hope that you'd plan to live longer than 19. Come on you gotta make it out of your teen years!!

[joel21wolter]

haha i do. I have been driving relatively slow since my ticket