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kgj996
10-23-2008, 09:01 PM
I just thought this might shed some light on the subject. There is a lot of info on the subject and a lot of bases to cover, and only so much free time, so it is a work in progress. Feel free to add to or ask Q's along the way.

Water methanol injection is an old trick developed by ww2 airplane engineers to squeeze a lot more power out of aircraft engines safely and economically. The water meth mixture was injected directly into the engine intakes and created a cooler, denser air charge. The water also creates a lot of turbulence inside the combustion chamber, swirling the air/fuel mixture and creating a more efficient burn, increasing fuel economy and allowing the engines to run cooler and safer, and producing more power. The methanol was introduced to the mixture and was found to increase octane of the fuel and allow the engine to run more timing and leaner AFRs witch allowed for more power to be produced safely.

Now how does this affect my car? Well, water/meth injection has been used on cars for a few years now( like 20) and has been found to give the same benefits that the aircraft of ww2 experienced, able to run more boost and timing with leaner AFRs without detonation or knock and with cooler EGTs. All of this equals more power to the wheels, and a lot of it. Some cars can see a gain of 100whp or more depending on the tune. The biggest increases will be found on forced induction cars because you can turn up the boost so much without detonation, but N/A cars can see a big increase of power with added timing and leaned out AFRs.

What kit do I buy?
There are many different kits made buy different companies for different applications, so you have lots of options. The main differences are in the types of pumps, number of failsafes they come with, where they mount in the car, and how they are activated. ( boost switch, maf switch, 2d map progressive)

The two types of pumps used in WI kits are diaphragm type pumps like ShurFlo, that are found in less expensive kits, and magnetic piston pumps, found in kits from hydramist and aquamist.

The diaphragm pumps are cheaper because they have been around for ever and were designed for agriculture rather than the automotive industry, but they still work fine and can pump up to 150 psi and can handle a 50/50 mix of methanol. Most water injection brands use this type of pump. Here is a pic of a Shurflo pump found in the Coolingmist kits.
http://www.coolingmist.com/products/images/Cool150Pumplarge.jpg

The magnetic piston pump is the best of the best in terms of water pumps because they were made just to pump water. Instead of having a mechanical connection to the pumping mechanism, they use a strong magnet to cycle a piston pump without ant moving connecting parts. This makes these pumps super reliable because of the lack of moving parts. These pumps aren't produced and manufactured like the diaphragm pumps, and only a few companies make them, so they are very expensive compared to the diaphragm type. Here is a pic of an aquamist kit with the magnetic type pump.
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.YOU/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.YOU/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpghttp://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/sys1/sys1s.JPG

The next big difference between kits is the number and type of failsafes they come with. This is usually the biggest concern when buying a kit because if the injection system fails in any way, will the car be safe?
Failsafes range from water level warning lights that light up when the tank is close to empty, to sensors in the water lines and tank that will turn down boost or switch to aux safe maps if they sense any loss of water flow or lack of water in the tank. some kits com with more than one failsafe to try to cover all the bases of failor, but most come with just one. Most failsafes can be bought seperatly from different manufacturers and adapted to any kit. Be sure to do your reaserch before buying a kit and make sure it will not leave you stranded.


Next is deciding between single stage( on/off) or a progressive kit. Single stage kits use simple boost switches that turn the pump on at a preset boost level, or some other means to turn the pump on off. These kits have no flow adjustment besides on and off. If the system is turned on too soon it may bog down the engine without enough rpm or boost to use that amount of alcohol and water being injected. On the other hand, if you only flow at one rate, it might not be the optimum flow for the whole power band.

Progressive systems, or dual stage systems, use a progressive map with sensors that read your maf sensor and/or boost to calculate how much water to inject. They can also run off of RPM, gear, or TPS. The controller adjusts the flow of the pump acording to the map of the controller, similar to a fuel injector. The biggest advantage to a progressive system is that you have a flow of water/alcohol to match your power curve throughout your power band. This type of kit will have the best driveablity and power band compaired to a kit that is either on or off. For the non progressive kits, you need to use the right size spray nozzle for the horse power you plan on making.

One of the last considerations is the location and size of tank you want. You can utilize your existing winshield washer fluid resivoir and use that to hold your meth, but then you are without washer fluid. Other kits have a small 1/2 gallon tank that mounts under the hood and is stealthy, but you loose meth compacity. Depending on how you drive, 1/2 gallong of meth might last for 1/2 tank of gas or less. Another option is a trunk mounted kit. You can use the stock STI intercooler water tank or opt to buy a supplied tank. These kits hold a lot more fluid but are a little harder to install due to running wires and hose from the engine to the trunk.
Here are some pics of different mounting options:
Trunk
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/beavis820/STi_smcinstall12.jpghttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l40/djerickd/DSC01367.jpg

Mine
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg45/kgj996/DSC02414.jpg





Under hood:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h246/dibblejr/DSC00408.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h246/dibblejr/DSC00432.jpg


How does the meth affect my tune?

The water methanol injection will allow for you to run more boost and more timing, depending on your mix. a 50/50 mix might be able support up to 2 degrees of timing, around 1/2 point AFR, and 3-5 lbs of boost over a straight pump gas tune. This combination can net a huge increase in wheel hp while maintaining safe egts and without knock.

Where do I get methanol?
Methanol is most commonly found in windshield washer fluid. The blue washer fluid that is good for -20f is a 40/60 mix of meth and water. while it isn't a 50/50 mix, it is still very effective and very cheap. At $1.69/ gallon, it really beats paying for race fuel or fuel additives. Other sources are fuel suppliers and race fuel distributors. They sell 100% meth, but it isn't cheap. Also, some fuel line antifreeze made by HEET is 100% methanol. While it's not practical to buy dosens of 12oz bottles of heet, you can use them to bump up your washer fluid to a 50/50 mix.


Here is a list of some manufacturers that offer kits.

www.aquamist.co.uk (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/)
http://www.snowperformance.net/
www.coolingmist.com (http://www.coolingmist.com/)
www.alcohol-injection.com (http://www.alcohol-injection.com/)
www.enginerunup.com (http://www.enginerunup.com/)
www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection (http://www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection)
www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm (http://www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm)


To be continued..... if any one has any input or Q's post them up.

Kevin
10-23-2008, 09:09 PM
I've been thinking about the aquamist setup with the 12L spec c tank. I really like it due to all the fail safes. I think all said and done it would end up running around 1000-1200 though lol.

what other kits are out there with the same amount of failsafes and can use the spec c tank?

kgj996
10-23-2008, 09:16 PM
Any kit can work with the spec c tank. Snow performance and coolingmist both sell kits that include everything but the tank and also have multiple fail safes.

Bu11dogg2
10-23-2008, 09:31 PM
Nice write up :) I'm a fan of TORCO myself though. However, they have made using meth must safer which makes me wonder if race fuel may become a thing of the past in street cars.

Kevin
10-23-2008, 09:39 PM
race fuel and meth:devil:

Bu11dogg2
10-23-2008, 09:40 PM
:lol:

there is such a thing as "enough"

kgj996
10-23-2008, 09:46 PM
Meth only adds so much octane to the fuel.A lot of people will run both at the track, but for the street it is a little much.

Kevin
10-23-2008, 09:47 PM
:lol:

there is such a thing as "enough"

never lol

I'm gonna start looking at meth kits very soon.
you guys able to get aquamist kits:D

Robk0000
10-23-2008, 09:52 PM
Count me in for the group buy!

RCKSTR
10-23-2008, 10:08 PM
Count me in for the group buy!
I'm down for this group buy:D I've heard lots of good stuff about the aquamist, snow performance, and even the AEM kit. I've been wanting one for a while now and I'm getting more serious about them as of late.
the $ for HP gain is insane:devil:
if we do a group buy for real, I'll be on the list!

Nick S.
10-28-2008, 07:54 PM
Meth only adds so much octane to the fuel.VP C16 is 117 octane and VP Import is 120+ both are motor octane rating not research octane.

One of the benifits of race gas over meth is you don't have the weight of a meth kit and windshield wiper fluid in the car.

How long is a bosch wideband suppost to last running meth Kevin?

Bu11dogg2
10-28-2008, 08:01 PM
stock subarus really won't benefit from much over 98 octane.

I ran 104, which was overkill considering the same setup on another car with 98 made the same power.

kgj996
10-28-2008, 08:29 PM
VP C16 is 117 octane and VP Import is 120+ both are motor octane rating not research octane.

One of the benifits of race gas over meth is you don't have the weight of a meth kit and windshield wiper fluid in the car.

How long is a bosch wideband suppost to last running meth Kevin?

Meth won't shorten the life of the o2 sensor, just the lead and other good chemicals from race gas shorten the life a bit.:)

I would hope no one with a stock subaru is thinking about running meth or race gas completely stock! Meth and race gas can't be fully taken advantage from without larger turbos and/or the ability to adjust timing and AFRs.

kgj996
10-28-2008, 10:11 PM
Thread updated! Enjoy.

Bu11dogg2
10-28-2008, 10:54 PM
Cool! thanks man!!

Bu11dogg2
10-28-2008, 10:54 PM
I would hope no one with a stock subaru is thinking about running meth or race gas completely stock! Meth and race gas can't be fully taken advantage from without larger turbos and/or the ability to adjust timing and AFRs.


I meant on stock block :o

Bu11dogg2
11-11-2008, 07:12 PM
I still can't get over how cheap I8URSTI sold that kit for...

-=The Boss=-
11-11-2008, 07:15 PM
WI is the best thing ever!

Snow performance FTW!

Kevin
11-12-2008, 12:36 AM
I still can't get over how cheap I8URSTI sold that kit for...

lol no kidding

RCKSTR
11-12-2008, 12:39 AM
I still can't get over how cheap I8URSTI sold that kit for...
ya, it had the spec-c tank to:unamused: and it was a quick sale:lol:
I've been talking to a friend of mine with the snow performance kit, he loves it. I'll probubly get that aswell:) soon:spin:

kgj996
11-13-2008, 07:18 AM
^Post some pics after the install.:D

-=The Boss=-
11-13-2008, 09:50 AM
ya, it had the spec-c tank to:unamused: and it was a quick sale:lol:
I've been talking to a friend of mine with the snow performance kit, he loves it. I'll probubly get that aswell:) soon:spin:
Been running a SP kit with Safe Inject for over 2 years now. Its GREAT!

I have a '05 LGT with a 20g and TMIC on the meth (I run windshield washer fluid) I taped the WI tank for the supply and 99% of people would think the car is stock :devil:

RCKSTR
11-13-2008, 06:21 PM
Been running a SP kit with Safe Inject for over 2 years now. Its GREAT!

I have a '05 LGT with a 20g and TMIC on the meth (I run windshield washer fluid) I taped the WI tank for the supply and 99% of people would think the car is stock :devil:
very nice and super creative, DIY FTW:devil: do you happen to have pics of that setup?

-=The Boss=-
11-13-2008, 06:37 PM
I will look for them later for ya ;)

RCKSTR
11-13-2008, 06:57 PM
I will look for them later for ya ;)
thanks:D

RCKSTR
11-14-2008, 01:03 AM
saw this new kit in DSport, looks really nice... I want:D not that expensive either.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water-injection-kits-1/subaru-22/wrx-sti-stage-2-69.html

oh ya, its the Devil's own Kit.

Murphy2012
11-17-2008, 11:31 AM
Anyone heard good/bad things about SMC kits? I found a good deal on one I might pick up this week. 200 for everything.

Kevin
11-17-2008, 06:42 PM
most kits are pretty good now.I've seen that same kit for 200 also sounds like a good deal.

check out water/meth injection thread on nasioc also terry.

-=The Boss=-
11-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Anyone heard good/bad things about SMC kits? I found a good deal on one I might pick up this week. 200 for everything.
Whats that use a fuel pump?

Get a quality kit you can trust. Your engine depends on it :spin:

Kevin
11-17-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm really liking the aem kit and collingmist kits right now

-=The Boss=-
11-17-2008, 10:43 PM
collingmist uses the same pump as Snow Performance. To me it all comes down to the safety system.

Kevin
11-17-2008, 10:46 PM
well in that case hands down aquamist

Bu11dogg2
11-19-2008, 12:49 PM
collingmist uses the same pump as Snow Performance. To me it all comes down to the safety system.

+1

Murphy2012
11-19-2008, 01:07 PM
Flojet makes the pump for the kit I am looking at.

Bu11dogg2
11-20-2008, 04:50 PM
If you troll NASIOC you can find deals on used kits almost daily.

kgj996
11-21-2008, 10:18 PM
The biggest fail safe is to not tune the car with meth to it's limits for a dd.

Evoeater
01-15-2009, 02:34 PM
I love meth and cant wait to order my labonte kit!!

Bu11dogg2
01-15-2009, 03:57 PM
Don't think it's a risk i'de ever take

kgj996
02-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Don't think it's a risk i'de ever take

Oh come on, your Audi would love some juice! :lol:

RCKSTR
02-09-2009, 02:13 AM
Oh come on, your Audi would love some juice! :lol:
Mmm boost juice:)

kgj996
03-08-2009, 08:55 PM
Does anyone run a multi nozzle system?

The Stig
03-09-2009, 09:34 AM
-=the boss=- does IIRC

-=The Boss=-
03-09-2009, 01:05 PM
Nope a single nozzle post IC. Its a big one though :lol:

What are you thinking kgj? A pre-IC nozzle?

kgj996
03-09-2009, 06:05 PM
Yeah, I've seen a few setups like that and I'm interested in doing it to mine.

-=The Boss=-
03-09-2009, 07:16 PM
more details on the setup? Turbo and IC type? From what I read its not worth the trouble and a good sized post IC setup works best.

kgj996
03-09-2009, 07:21 PM
I'm not i any need for more meth yet, but it just seemed like a cool setup. I run a 20g now, so single nozzle will do for now.

steveo4wrx
08-06-2009, 06:37 AM
Ok I got a few questions. I have a slightly modified wrx I was wondering if I ran this would it ruin my engine? I am running stage 2 cobb reflash. I can get a good deal on a snow meth inj kit. Is this a good system to run?

kgj996
08-06-2009, 08:11 PM
Running meth is like running race fuel. It won't hurt your engine unless you tune it to the max with the meth. It will let you run more timing and more boost without knocking which means more power. If you plan on running your stg 2 map, then meth wont do much for you besides keep knocking down on hot days or from crappy gas. If you plan on tuning past stg 2 then meth is a good idea for future power goals.

Bu11dogg2
02-26-2010, 11:44 AM
Bumping this up for our newer members who have Meth :)

RCKSTR
02-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Bumping this up for our newer members who have Meth :)

is it crazy to want to be a meth addict? :lol:

Bu11dogg2
02-26-2010, 01:32 PM
nope :lol:

Bu11dogg2
10-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Don't think it's a risk i'de ever take


gonna go back on this statement.

The new kits they have out are awesome!

I'm thinking AEM kit + tune this spring :)

Subyspeed
10-19-2010, 10:24 AM
Do It!

Seraphinwolf
10-19-2010, 06:50 PM
Get the AEM so I can inspect the kit when you get it. I might try running with meth and stock rods and just do the pistons on the 3.0L at first. See what I can get out of it.

RCKSTR
10-19-2010, 06:53 PM
is it crazy to want to be a meth addict? :lol:



Hello, my names Justin and I'm a... :hide:

RCKSTR
10-19-2010, 06:54 PM
gonna go back on this statement.

The new kits they have out are awesome!

I'm thinking AEM kit + tune this spring :)


very nice :cool:

Bu11dogg2
10-19-2010, 08:22 PM
We'll be meth addicts together :wub:

RCKSTR
10-19-2010, 09:51 PM
We'll be meth addicts together :wub:

:rofl: well I've been told that when ur an addict it's best to be in the "buddy" system haha

Ive been talking to a few methheads allready seeing what they're running for a premo mix :) sounds like bulk is best!

Seraphinwolf
03-01-2011, 10:02 PM
Bumping for Connor

CanonShooter
05-06-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm a meth addict and I have no plans on recovering...

2007st3
08-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Can S# be mapped for meth and intelligent and sport left alone? or do all 3 need to be mapped for meth?

DHGurs
08-11-2011, 11:51 AM
It cannot, they are essentially on the same tune, however they have adjustable throttle mapping. So it is tuned so S# is 100% throttle, S is less (say 90%) which would work out to less boost, and even more so for I.

2007st3
08-11-2011, 12:15 PM
HMMMM. Still may need this.

Kevin
09-30-2011, 07:19 AM
anyone have the aem kit? thoughts on it?

I'm thinking about going with there 5 gal hd kit or the aquamist but it would be $400 more then the aem kit.

brian
09-30-2011, 07:54 AM
I have the aem kit. I've had no problems with it for about 2 years and I have a the 5 gal tank for sale

Bu11dogg2
09-30-2011, 09:12 AM
anyone have the aem kit? thoughts on it?

I'm thinking about going with there 5 gal hd kit or the aquamist but it would be $400 more then the aem kit.


If you're going to EFI email Chris first ;)

Maps@efilogics.com

CanonShooter
12-30-2011, 03:09 PM
anyone have the aem kit? thoughts on it?

I'm thinking about going with there 5 gal hd kit or the aquamist but it would be $400 more then the aem kit.

I'm running the Aquamist - it's a very nice kit. I'm in the manchvegas area if you ever want to get a look at my install.