Looking for Suspension Upgrades? LOOK HERE FIRST!

[Bu11dogg2]

Anyone who ever saw or rode in my Suby wagon knows that I am serious about suspension.

It is my opinion that anyone can make a car go fast by slapping on a few upgrades and OTS tune, but not everyone can design and tune a suspension.

First things first.....

If you're looking to upgrade your suspension there are a few things you need to consider.

1. Ride Quality: Stiffer suspensions will make for a stiffer ride. If yo have a bad back, or kids.... you could find yourself wasting $100's of $$$ on parts you will just end up taking off.

2. Parts Quality: Yes, that ebay sway bar may be $40 cheaper.... but it is also cheaper quality and lower grade metal. You don't have to pay top $$$ for a good suspension, but you also can't cheap out.

3. Reliability: Go with a trusted name, trust me on this one :lol:

4. YOUR NEEDS: Do you drag? rally? Auto-X? daily driver? are you in it for looks? These are all things to consider when choosing your suspension.


There is a lot more to suspension then just throwing on a set of springs and a strut tower bar. You have to take careful consideration of you current modifications and suspension needs.

The biggest mistake people make is buying a set up that is uncomfortable to drive daily.

My suggestion to any of you who are considering suspension mods is to first ride in a car with your desired suspension mods. If it still feels ok..... the next step is choosing your parts.

The majority of Subaru owners only change springs. Changing springs will alter not only your ride height, but also ride quality, stiffness and handling.

You have MANY MANY options when it comes to buying springs. A simple google search will yield 10+ different makes and sizes.

The basic and most popular options are:

1. Tein S-Tech/H-Tech
2. STi Pink Springs
3. Prodrive

Here is a FULL list of all known available springs for your WRX (Legacy owners should search vendor sites for fitments)
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=plg1Ea3xR9HfIsfeL_KhwEw&gid=1

Ok... so you chose which springs you want based off of pictures, drop/raise levels, price and reliability. What's next?

Install of course :)

Unless you have done this before or have someone helping you who has done this before DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you release the strut from the spring it is under PRESSURE and can/will injure/kill you!!!!
Always ask a professional or fellow member for help.


Another pretty basic upgrade is the Strut tower bar. The basic stock set up is pretty decent for daily, street legal driving. But don't kid yourself.... you want something better right?

well... the truth is.... they don't really do much :( Subaru's are built with a rigid frame to support the AWD system and unless your making 1-2g turns a strut bar is just a pretty neat thing to look at. :(

The strut tower bar acts a brace between your 2 tophats.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/Bu11dogg2/wagon/suby017.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/Bu11dogg2/wagon/suby018.jpg


Just like springs.... there are hundreds to choose from.
I chose the STi because I though it looked cool.

F/R Sways and Endlinks

Now we're getting into the nitty-gritty :)

One of the best upgrades you can do suspension wise is get stiffer sways and endlink bushings.

$ for $ this is one of the best suspension upgrades out there!!!


Sway bars reduce body roll and body sway. YOU WILL feel a difference in the handling of your car when you upgrade your sways :)

http://www.buttdynoracing.com/faqs/swaybar/swaybar-basics.jpg


There are a million options....

Like I mentioned before... stiffer the sway/endlink, stiffer the ride. You need to decide what your goal is before you purchase!

I recommend buying a sway in the 60mm - 80mm range.

[Bu11dogg2]

Next up is struts/coilovers:

Now these are a HUGE pet peeve of mine :mad:

There are so many options out there to choose from and finding one that is right for you is challenging.

Your struts control the ride quality of your car. Super stiff struts will make for bumpy ride and super soft will make for a bad handling car :(

Another popular option is coilovers. Most coilovers allow you to adjust camber and yaw, ride height and stiffness. Some even allow you to do this from inside the car!!!

so.. how do you choose the right strut/coilover?

1. It's do or die, you must decide what kind of ride you want.
2. Price, how much $$$$ do you want to spend?
3. Quality, i'll get into this in more detail.

The biggest thing about Coil overs is quality. The ebay special may be cheap.... but they will need to be rebuilt after 5-10,000 miles. This means you have to take them off and send them in for a rebuild and wait up to 2 months to get them back.

Other brands such as TEIN can and will last you as long as 40k depending on your driving habits. Some models offer free rebuilds for life, other offer an exchange program.

DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE BUYING!!!

that ebay special $300 adjustable coilover set could cost you $2,000 in rebuilds over the course of 40k miles whereas a set of teins with free rebuilds are only a one time cost of $1300 for the coilovers :)

DO YOU RESEARCH BEFORE BUYING!!!

When you buy a set of adjustable coilovers you have to adjust them yourself. This means adjusting yaw, camber, ride height, stiffness and alignment.

If you can't do this yourself... it can be BIG $$$$ to get it done at a shop :(

If you do it yourself and mess up.... you can cause an accident, damage your car or even worse.... get someone killed :(

Make sure you read the instructions carefully and ask for help.

TUNING YOUR SUSPENSION:

I'm no expert on this, nor will ever pretend to be. There is so much to learn when it comes to getting your car ready for a event like auto-x or rally.

Here are some informative threads to help you out :)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203801

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1106362

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478371

Happy tuning!

[Bu11dogg2]

Also,

Let's not forget that tires play a key roll in how you car handles.

See this thread for help with choosing tires:

http://www.newenglandsubarus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3067

[Bu11dogg2]

Anyone ever used the EDFC??

[Bu11dogg2]

anyone?

[I8UR911]

Anyone ever used the EDFC??

Are you thinking about throwing some teins in the Audi?:)

[Kevin]

anyone?


its a waste of money for lazy old people lol

I knew a few people that had it on there wrx's and then got rid of the teins after they blew the seals 2 times in a row.

go with some nice ohlins or blisteins for the audi.

[kgj996]

I think that for the majority of members here, coil overs are overkill for the type of driving most of us do. Unless you are racing 2 to 3 times a month and don't drive your car long distances daily, I would go with a set of struts and springs. For a WRX, used STI struts are a great, economical choice. I bought a set of used STI struts for $250 shipped with the top hats and Tanabe gf210 springs and the combination makes for a well balanced street/track car that cost less than $500 and doesn't require a kidney belt to drive to work.

The last driving school I went to at NHMS, my instructor was very impressed how well ballanced and nutral the car handelled.

KYB also makes a few options for struts, both non adjustable and ajustable that bolt on, and you can choose a spring for your needs.

The other option for struts are Koni inserts. These, imo, are by far superior to any coilover combination under $4k with the right springs. Koni's offer some of the best dampening availible, comprible to Olins, and the inserts they sell are very reasonably priced for the performance you will get out of them. A set will run around $600 and they reuse your stock strut housing. They require you to cut your stock struts apart and remove the stock inserts and replace them with the Koni's. Here is a link to the install and further info on the Koni inserts: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1219607

[Murphy2012]

Tokico D Spec Struts are also a very good choice. They are infinetly adjustable instead of just four clicks like Konis, they are an entire setup that does not require you to cut up a strut, perform better on a shock dyno than Konis, and are right around the same price as the Konis.
I have those mated with RCE Track springs and the car handles just as well as those cars with coils that I have been in, on an autox track. I agree with Kevin with the coil over comment, they are really not necessary unless your'e a track whore, or just want to look cool with a low car, which I know some people on here are after. You can also add the ground control kit to any one of the two struts that Kevin and I mentioned, and you will basically have yourself a set of nice, home made coils.

[kgj996]

Tokico D Spec Struts are also a very good choice. They are infinetly adjustable instead of just four clicks like Konis, they are an entire setup that does not require you to cut up a strut, perform better on a shock dyno than Konis, and are right around the same price as the Konis.
I have those mated with RCE Track springs and the car handles just as well as those cars with coils that I have been in, on an autox track. I agree with Kevin with the coil over comment, they are really not necessary unless your'e a track whore, or just want to look cool with a low car, which I know some people on here are after. You can also add the ground control kit to any one of the two struts that Kevin and I mentioned, and you will basically have yourself a set of nice, home made coils.

Thanks murph for the input! How are the D's on the street? I don't have first hand experience with other struts besides the koni's and STi's.

[Murphy2012]

D's are great on the street man. They have I think 14 turns of total damper adjustment, with no clicks just free spinning, hence "infinetly adjustable". They can go from softer than stock to realllly stiff. I think they can hold up to 500 lb springs too. They are real nice. Had them with the STi takeoffs and the RCE track springs, loved both setups.

[kgj996]

Maybe next season I will upgrade to some D's for Auto x season. :devil:

[Murphy2012]

Its not a bad idea! Dungelman is selling his coils and going to go with a similar setup to what I have. Coils are great and all, but given the area we live in (New England roads and such) and the maintenance they require, and the fact that running them in snow kills them, I think its best to stay with a strut/spring package. If I were down south with smooth roads/tracks, I would have saved for a set of nice coils.

[kgj996]

I just got a great deal on used Koni inserts! They just need a rebuild.

[Bu11dogg2]

How long of a wait is that?

[kgj996]

not sure yet.

[Bu11dogg2]

Expect 3 weeks :(

Make sure you mark them so that you get yours back :lol:

[kgj996]

Boy, that would suck!

[Bu11dogg2]

or, learn how to rebuild them yourself :lol:

[kgj996]

I might look into that. I've rebuilt dirt bike and motorcycle forks before. It can't be that different right?

[Bu11dogg2]

I might look into that. I've rebuilt dirt bike and motorcycle forks before. It can't be that different right?


MUCH more complicated.

I don't think you can buy the kits for some brands.


If you did learn how to do it you could make a killing doing rebuilds on your spare time.

12 hour turn around... you'de make $1200 a weekend ($600 a rebuild)

[IMPORTIMAGE]

anyone on here using these? dollar for dollar and if you plan on keeping your car for a while this is the absolute cheapest/best performance setup...and here are about 800 people who think so...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1085379&page=44

[Murphy2012]

Ya, there are some people on here using these. They are my favorite of the budget coil setups out there. I am running something different though.

[IMPORTIMAGE]

www.bcracing-na.com

check out the new ER series..they are going to own!

[Bu11dogg2]

Nice!

[mattminer]

Im running the konis with racecomp wagon springs. If anyone is interested in checking out a great handling car w/o resorting to backbreaking coilovers, you are welsome to come for a ride with me or take my wagon for a spin around the parking lot :)

-M@

[Bu11dogg2]

I've heard a lot of good reviews about racecomp :)

[Murphy2012]

I heart RCE

[Kevin]

I really like the bc coil overs

[Bu11dogg2]

TEIN Flex, best set up I ever owned

[RCKSTR]

how much of a pain is it to install swaybars? never done that before but I'd like to get some aftermarkets sometime later on this year...

[Nate8409]

For ride comfort and hard spring rates go German.

For super hard springs and shocks and general bad DD ride go Japanese.

[mdungelman]

how much of a pain is it to install swaybars? never done that before but I'd like to get some aftermarkets sometime later on this year...

Pretty simple install. I'm sure someone of your knowledge wouldn't have an issue with it.

Rear Swaybar: The toughest part is if you're upgrading to HD mounts (which is suggested). There isn't a whole lot of room to work on the passenger side bracket, but its do-able. If you remove the right rear wheel you can get to the bracket and replace it with the HD mount. Less than 2 hours using ramps on the garage floor. Probably somewhere around an hour up on a lift, including picture time.

Front Swaybar: Some remove the front sub-frame, some don't. I personally prefer to. It is possible to remove a wheel and snake the stock bar out and aftermarket bar in. Really, the most difficult part here is getting the mounting brackets off. Not a whole lot of room to work if the sub-frame is still up there. Again, less than 2 hours on the floor. Around an hour up on the lift. Don't forget the pics!

[Bu11dogg2]

how much of a pain is it to install swaybars? never done that before but I'd like to get some aftermarkets sometime later on this year...


Dooo It!!!!!


Stay away from whiteline :mad:

Their endlinks rusted out on me in one year

[2.5guy]

I am looking for a stiff sway how are the adjustable 22mm-24mm whitelines for the rear and white 22 line for the front? Obviously with matching whiteline endlinks.. Has anyone ever run these or know of better ones for my 2000 RS?


DAMNIT I NEED TO LEARN TO READ THE HOLE THREAD SOMETIMES WTF

"Stay away from whiteline :mad: "

What sways should I run? I drive my car daily as is I am on the track I am starting with sways and working my way up to struts and springs how are kyb agx adjustables?

[Bu11dogg2]

I am looking for a stiff sway how are the adjustable 22mm-24mm whitelines for the rear and white 22 line for the front? Obviously with matching whiteline endlinks.. Has anyone ever run these or know of better ones for my 2000 RS?


DAMNIT I NEED TO LEARN TO READ THE HOLE THREAD SOMETIMES WTF

"Stay away from whiteline :mad: "

What sways should I run? I drive my car daily as is I am on the track I am starting with sways and working my way up to struts and springs how are kyb agx adjustables?


read my above post :lol:

[Bu11dogg2]

how are kyb agx adjustables?


Awesome :)

[Psychoreo]

I am looking for a stiff sway how are the adjustable 22mm-24mm whitelines for the rear and white 22 line for the front? Obviously with matching whiteline endlinks.. Has anyone ever run these or know of better ones for my 2000 RS?


DAMNIT I NEED TO LEARN TO READ THE HOLE THREAD SOMETIMES WTF

"Stay away from whiteline :mad: "

What sways should I run? I drive my car daily as is I am on the track I am starting with sways and working my way up to struts and springs how are kyb agx adjustables?


I've got the Hotchkiss fancy pants set on my 04 wagon and love them! Kind of squeeky, but that's cause my grease gun broke and I need to lube them. But the Grease fittings have caps that come on them so it's always easy to get to. And the rear is adjustable too :)

[Bu11dogg2]

got 25mm front and rear PERRIN sways/links with locking kit going in on Monday :)

I'll finally have a decent suspension....

[DHGurs]

Nice! Sways and links make a huge difference. Every enthusiast upgrade those and steering rack bushings right away.

[Bu11dogg2]

I've done them on every car i've owned as a first mod :)

[Seraphinwolf]

Those Perrin's are a tubular structure yes? I settled on my COBB ones for the adjustable rear and tubular structure. I can't wait to test them! :)

[Berge56]

sways and endlinks are up next for me. I want to do kartboy endlinks and perrin sways.

[DHGurs]

Perrins are solid.

[method]

Perrins are solid.

And have notorious fitment issues. They are beefy though.

[DHGurs]

And have notorious fitment issues. They are beefy though.

I can't speak for GD owners, but a lot of the problems with the new body style was them shipping STi bars to WRX owners and vice versa. Mine have fit perfectly on both my WRX and STi and never squeak. :bacon:

[Seraphinwolf]

Looking at Bilstein PSS9's.... Hmmm....
Anyone run them?

[Seraphinwolf]

And now looking at Whiteline coilovers...

[Berge56]

Are you tracking the car?

[Antihero]

dude, hotchkis endlinks are ****ing AWESOME.

[Seraphinwolf]

Are you tracking the car?
DDing with tracking more as I get more into it. The G4's are supposed to pretty much be a perfect mix for what I want. each dial click of the rebound is an actual change in feel and can go from an actual soft to hard not just mush to jello or granite to steel. Spring rates are 280f 240r for the set.
Already put a deposit on them and will be paying the guy in the next week. I can't wait!

[Bu11dogg2]

bumpity

[CanonShooter]

IF YOU OWN A SUBIE WITH MCPHERSON STRUTS IN THE REAR, PLEASE READ

Before you invest a nickel in any suspension upgrades, there is one thing you must absolutely do first - install rear subframe locking bolts!

Why?

Jack up the ass end of your Subie - or even put the rear up on ramps - and get comfortable underneath. Take a look at the rear subframe, and how the bottom of the struts attach to it and how the top of the struts attach to the body.

The body, the top mounting points for the struts, is stable. It does not move in relation to the body/chassis. However, the same cannot be said for the bottom attachment points - the subframe. The subframe is held to the chassis with bolts the are insulated with rubber bushings. In fact, the subframe can move by a fair amount, well over a 1/4 inch one way or the other.

What does this mean?

It means that camber can vary wildly from side to side, depending on where the subframe is sitting in relation to the body. In other words, the bottom attachment points for the rear struts can move in relation to the top attachment points.

What problems can this cause?

Some bad-ass cross camber in the rear! On my brand new '06 WRX, it was so bad I could actually see the difference from one side to another in the rear wheels/tires in relation to the fender! One side appeared to "stick out" further than the other. It was not an illusion.

The solution to this problem are subframe locking bolts, either Whiteline or Kartboy. These bolts are designed to address this specific issue and properly center the rear subframe to the chassis. When you go to install them, don't be suprised to have to loosen the subframe bolts and pry the subframe far enough to get the holes through the subframe that the bolts go through to line up with the threads in the body that the bolts screw in to. Yeah, it can be that far off - and usually is!

There is some debate as to whether the stock bushings hold the subframe stable under cornering loads. If the subframe moves, so do your rear camber settings - not good if you're trying to dial-in a performance suspension!

The conventional wisdom is to install the subframe locking bolts and just leave 'em in. This is what I have done with my FXT and they've been in the car for over 70,000 miles will no ill effect. Where my WRX had wicked cross camber without the bolts - minus 1.7 degrees camber on one side and minus .7 on the other - the FXT has little to no cross camber. This is because the top and rear mounting points for the struts remain stable in relation to one another, even under cornering loads, because the subframe is centered and "locked" to the chassis via the bolts.

Subframe locking bolts are the first - and mandatory - mod for anyone looking to make their Subie handle better.

[Joe]

Suspension question that i don't feel like creating a new thread for:



Do Sti springs provide a drop over wrx springs when installed on wrx struts?? I want to go a bit lower with the forester and can get a set for free.

[yaya]

Yes. Not much, but they should be a little lower.

I ran that setup for a while on my car.

[Joe]

Yes. Not much, but they should be a little lower.

I ran that setup for a while on my car.


.25"

.5"

6"??

ballpark. I am debating doing it. Also, how much did it stiffen up the ride?

[yaya]

Maybe 0.25"

Did feel noticeably stiffer.

Only a real upgrade if you can get them super cheap. I paid $50 and they were practically new.

[Joe]

Maybe 0.25"

Did feel noticeably stiffer.

Only a real upgrade if you can get them super cheap. I paid $50 and they were practically new.


Ok. yea the set would be for free, so cost would'nt be an issue. I am debating if its worth getting a new alignment. :lol: might just wait and find some drop springs or coilovers for when i go hellaflush..... in one to seven years.

[Seraphinwolf]

RCE blacks? Sounds reasonable choice to me! You could always switch to GC fitment KYB AGX's or GR2's for a bit lower.

[slightlymodified]

This question appeared to me that it would be worth asking here instead of a new thread. I am going to be upgrading my suspension soon... One of the things I want to do really soon is my sway bars... I have a 2011 wrx, I don't drive the car for a daily driver, I want a stiff ride good for the track but I also want some comfort because I have a bad back. Any suggestions on front and rear size. Also I have been looking into Perrin's positive steering response system, is this worth it and will it make a difference? I am also going to be adding Perrin's subframe lockdowns and Perrin endlinks in the front and rear. Any suggestions and advice would be helpful, I have never upgraded suspension in any car I have owned yet. (mainly kuz they were all pos rides haha).

[DHGurs]

If on stock struts and springs, go bigger, if you will go to coils at some point, either smaller or adjustable is better.

The PSRS will make steering much more responsive, as well as get you added caster for quicker turn in. It will require an alignment and will be harsher on the road, as it's replacing a soft rubber bushing with a pillowball.

SLS, Endlinks, diff bushings and steering rack bushings will all make a marked improvement as well.

[slightlymodified]

Good to know thank you very much. I will be remaining on stock struts and springs. I would love to go lower but i live on a dirt road so im gunna stick to the stock height.

[Seraphinwolf]

How bad of a dirt road? I've done plenty of driving lowered on hairy roads.

[slightlymodified]

The road isnt to bad but sometimes it is. The unfortionate part is going in/out of my driveway because ive got one section pulling in is lower

[Seraphinwolf]

There are a lot of options out there. Not all of them have to give you a "mad tyte stance" drop that will cause problems.

[Typical Tom]

Will I need aftermarket struts if I'm putting on Tein H-Techs on my 06 WRX?

[jwebsta32]

When they blow you will

[Typical Tom]

When they blow you will

How many miles do you give em? :(:mad::spin:

[Seraphinwolf]

10-15k. About a year is the going milage depending on pushing them. Some KYB GR-2's or Tokico D-Specs are nice, but Koni yellow inserts are def top choice!

[Typical Tom]

10-15k. About a year is the going milage depending on pushing them. Some KYB GR-2's or Tokico D-Specs are nice, but Koni yellow inserts are def top choice!

Okay, thanks for the info.

[jwebsta32]

could be less depending on how many times you hit large pot holes/bumps. You cant really figure in a 10-15k mile range. Too many unknowns.

[Nemesis]

10-15k. About a year is the going milage depending on pushing them. Some KYB GR-2's or Tokico D-Specs are nice, but Koni yellow inserts are def top choice!

KYB GR-2 FTW!!!!!! i have them in my outback.... i love them 20% stiffer them factory!

[SicRedGt]

And have notorious fitment issues. They are beefy though.

The ONLY thing I ever bought from Perrin that fit nicely were my sways. Never had one ounce of trouble wiith them, they fit perfect.