2006 WRX, pushing the TD04 edition

[BG @ BrenTuning]

2006 WRX 2.5L

COBB SF intake
Speedtech prototype inlet
Speedtech prototype catted exhaust
CCS style ebay TMIC
Stock fuel pump
Stock BOV (BT crush mod :rofl:)
Stock Boost solenoid

Tuning notes:

Boost solenoid is inconsistent at 90%+ (duh!)
Peak 18-18.5 psi tapers to 9psi at redline (Wouldnt make anymore on the stock solenoid)
Slightly more aggressive timing was used due to TMIC
11.2 midrange to 11.0 tapered afr
Aggressive AVCS :)
Car needs a fuel pump, had to do some trickery to the map to get it to settle, each pull is slightly inconsistent at this level of power

Numbers speak for themselves! Run of the mill 2.5L td04 is normally 230whp and 285wtq.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/brenwrx/2006TD04TMICINLET19PSi.jpg

[Demetry]

NIce numbers! Tim called me on the way back, said he loves it.

[Gearhead Geek]

:D <- All I'm gonna say for tonight, cause I'm exhausted. The numbers & curve sum it up pretty well. I'll post more tomorrow when I'm more awake :D

[BG @ BrenTuning]

We spent alot of time dialing in the part throttle boost.

With his prototype parts and TMIC the car was extra spool happy compared to normal stage 2, needed lots of finesse. But I beleive we got it to GG's liking :). Nice and controllable and then when you hammer it the boost is explosive.

Also the car doesn't pull like a TD04 car, keeps chugging well into the higher rpms. Can't wait to fit the EWG on it.

[itsmy04wrx]

Stock BOV (BT crush mod :rofl:)

I should do this.

[civic si hb]

Very nice....

Got the call while Tim was still talking to Bren.

Best TD04 map I;ve seen especially the power at the 5000rpm range and above. The power stays consistant rather than just falling off up top, congrats Tim.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

I should do this.

I think i did on your car :D Either way by your numbers it wasn't leaking

[Berge56]

Very nice Bren!

[JGard]

wow, impressive peak torque, especially so low in the revs, but wow that thing falls flat on its face after 4k RPM. Is that due to the turbo size and stock solenoid?

[shtbxr22]

nice job bren!! :up:

[civic si hb]

wow, impressive peak torque, especially so low in the revs, but wow that thing falls flat on its face after 4k RPM. Is that due to the turbo size and stock solenoid?


You should research TD04 tunes and see what alot of them look like especially on the 2.0L if u want to see how lots of TD04's can fall off. This is the exact opposite for a TD04 typically would do on a tune. Power band stays true and then stays flat pretty much right to redline which is almost un heard of on a TD04. 99% of TD04's will make there peak HP around 5k or a little later and then fall on it's face making less HP in the upper rpm band than what it did at 5000rpm. This is map is the exactly opposite from the typical TD04. The TD04 is known for running out of breath up top and that's what causes it to loose and make less HP in the upper rpm band. Bren was able to make the power band peak and then hold the HP just about right till redline. Personally one of the best TD04 power curves that i've seen on a TD04 to date.

[JGard]

You should research TD04 tunes and see what alot of them look like especially on the 2.0L if u want to see how lots of TD04's can fall off. This is the exact opposite for a TD04 typically would do on a tune. Power band stays true and then stays flat pretty much right to redline which is almost un heard of on a TD04. 99% of TD04's will make there peak HP around 5k or a little later and then fall on it's face making less HP in the upper rpm band than what it did at 5000rpm. This is map is the exactly opposite from the typical TD04. The TD04 is known for running out of breath up top and that's what causes it to loose and make less HP in the upper rpm band. Bren was able to make the power band peak and then hold the HP just about right till redline. Personally one of the best TD04 power curves that i've seen on a TD04 to date.

yeah, I'm not familiar with them at all. All I know is what my car just recently did. Otherwise, I'm fairly new to actual engine tuning for any car. I've always just done suspension/chassis mods to my previous cars.

[civic si hb]

yeah, I'm not familiar with them at all. All I know is what my car just recently did. Otherwise, I'm fairly new to actual engine tuning for any car. I've always just done suspension/chassis mods to my previous cars.


It's all good man.... Best way to find out and ask just like you did and you'll find out the info that u want :)

[Demetry]

I'm thinking the big TMIC was one of the reasons it tapered to 9lbs at redline, maybe a little too much volume to fill up top. Even still, power is there and true according to the graph. Bren also mentioned the stock BCS was the reason. I'd like to get his input on this.

[civic si hb]

I'm thinking the big TMIC was one of the reasons it tapered to 9lbs at redline, maybe a little too much volume to fill up top. Even still, power is there and true according to the graph. Bren also mentioned the stock BCS was the reason. I'd like to get his input on this.


Yeah it 's really wierd to see the boost cut by 50% at redline but still making power. On our two maps having the 18G and the VF39 we lose around 2lbs or so of boost from peak to redline and not having our power falls off, kinda something around the same as this chart just ours with more HP. If you took out boost and cut it by 50% from peak to redline I would be scared to see what our maps would look like. So defiantly in for more info Bren when you see this posts :)

[Demetry]

Yeah it 's really wierd to see the boost cut by 50% at redline but still making power. On our two maps having the 18G and the VF39 we lose around 2lbs or so of boost from peak to redline and not having our power falls off, kinda something around the same as this chart just ours with more HP. If you took out boost and cut it by 50% from peak to redline I would be scared to see what our maps would look like. So defiantly in for more info Bren when you see this posts :)


Well as you know we have higher lbs/min flowing turbos that have some what more top end flow characteristics vs a TD04. That and along with the MBC, FP etc, that all helps the cause...

[civic si hb]

Well as you know we have higher lbs/min flowing turbos that have some what more top end flow characteristics vs a TD04. That and along with the MBC, FP etc, that all helps the cause...


Ya you have more than I do with the ewg, tgv deletes and larger turbo plus a larger hotside, I'm really no biggie with the VF39. Just my peak boost and redline is about 2lbs difference but all 3 of our map curves is alot alike just different HP totals.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

I'm thinking the big TMIC was one of the reasons it tapered to 9lbs at redline, maybe a little too much volume to fill up top. Even still, power is there and true according to the graph. Bren also mentioned the stock BCS was the reason. I'd like to get his input on this.

They all will taper to 9psi or so up top (6500+ rpms), TMIC or not.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Yeah it 's really wierd to see the boost cut by 50% at redline but still making power. On our two maps having the 18G and the VF39 we lose around 2lbs or so of boost from peak to redline and not having our power falls off, kinda something around the same as this chart just ours with more HP. If you took out boost and cut it by 50% from peak to redline I would be scared to see what our maps would look like. So defiantly in for more info Bren when you see this posts :)

I'm not sure if I am seeing it hold to redline, the graph still dips and loses 20-25hp past 5500. This is not magic, it can only move so much air. :D

[civic si hb]

I'm not sure if I am seeing it hold to redline, the graph still dips and loses 20-25hp past 5500. This is not magic, it can only move so much air. :D


From 5500rpm to 6500rpm there is a slight loss but nothing from what I;ve seen on the 2.0L with the TD04 how they fall off much quicker and more of a loss towards the higher rpm range.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

We could possibly get it to hold flatter with an EWG - we'll cross that road someday I'm sure.

[Gearhead Geek]

Alright, way late on posting this I know, but I was dead yesterday :lol:

So as the chart & numbers show, Bren did an AMAZING job on my car. Upon arrival, the car was SUPER spool happy. After Bren working his magic, the spool is actually controllable. Literally the car can now go part throttle way into the rpm range and not make boost, or go part throttle and hold at low psi without the car trying to level off boost (or make more). But of course, the second the pedal goes down, the turbo spools right up, and holy crap the thing pulls like a monster. Bren certainly did some things with the stock bcs and a TD04 that I (and I have a feeling he) didn't think were possible.
The car can literally be driven like a car with a more proportionally matched turbo, despite the fact it still has a stock TD04. And despite the fact is still falls off up top, it is far less steep then most TD04's (go look at other charts and compare, it's pretty clear the difference).

I'm definitely going to be picking up a fuel pump and a GrimmSpeed BCS in a few weeks, and I'll be going back down to see Bren. As he said, the car is very inconsistent pushing it this much, since the stock pump & bcs are maxed. I'm sure with those upgrades the car will make a bit more up top, and will put down slightly higher numbers. And eventually, once money permits, we'll see what this thing does with an EWG :D

I'm sure this review doesn't do justice to his amazing work or the way the car pulls, but it's hard to put into words (perhaps it's time for me to do a video for the acceleration video thread lol). The best advice I have for anyone is go see him and get tuned by him. You will be amazed, will learn a lot, and your car will run like never before.

[Demetry]

Got a ride in Tim's car lastnight. Pulls strong up top for the TD04, much better than my Cobb OTS map I had when I was at that level.

[Gearhead Geek]

Got a ride in Tim's car lastnight. Pulls strong up top for the TD04, much better than my Cobb OTS map I had when I was at that level.

Plus you were entranced by my uber-techno-beats :lol:

[Gearhead Geek]

Bringing this one back from the dead a little bit. No new updates yet, however, Eric found a new piece of dyno plotting software on the other forum called Virtual Dyno. Checked it out and it's a nice alternative to airboy (MUCH easier to use). Supposedly (take that with a grain of salt considering it's from the other forum) it's been tested to be within 1 to 3% of a DynoJet.

The following output is with my correct tire size entered, vehicle weight + aprox 300lbs for passenger weight, and with smoothing set to 10 (basicly smoothed it until the curve looked as smooth as Bren's).

Pretty cool to see how close they are using the same data. We'll find out in a couple weeks what a real dyno chart w/the car looks like (on Kinetic's, I believe it's a land/sea?)

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/four999/vdyno.jpg

[shtbxr22]

pretty neat stuff. i did a log this morning, and run through that with 10 for smoothing, and non corrected for temp mine shows 332hp/378ft lbs. hopefully i'll have enough scratch to run on the dyno. :D

[Gearhead Geek]

pretty neat stuff. i did a log this morning, and run through that with 10 for smoothing, and non corrected for temp mine shows 332hp/378ft lbs. hopefully i'll have enough scratch to run on the dyno. :D

Make sure you add in weight for yourself/passengers. Also, the weather correction works pretty well. Weather Underground has a great weather history listing if you want specifics hour by hour (and sometimes every 15 minutes depending on area).

[shtbxr22]

here it is. i just used the 08 sti because the ratios are the same, and i adjusted the weight for my car, and added my weight plus the crap i have inside/fuel. also my 245/35's :D

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/newchart.jpg

[civic si hb]

Bringing this one back from the dead a little bit. No new updates yet, however, Eric found a new piece of dyno plotting software on the other forum called Virtual Dyno. Checked it out and it's a nice alternative to airboy (MUCH easier to use). Supposedly (take that with a grain of salt considering it's from the other forum) it's been tested to be within 1 to 3% of a DynoJet.

The following output is with my correct tire size entered, vehicle weight + aprox 300lbs for passenger weight, and with smoothing set to 10 (basicly smoothed it until the curve looked as smooth as Bren's).

Pretty cool to see how close they are using the same data. We'll find out in a couple weeks what a real dyno chart w/the car looks like (on Kinetic's, I believe it's a land/sea?)

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/four999/vdyno.jpg


That's pretty cool stuff Tim and I like it alot!!!

Can u tell me what it does to the numbers if you lower the correction factor to 1.00??? Me just being curious??? Thanks for posting this info up though man :)

[Gearhead Geek]

That's pretty cool stuff Tim and I like it alot!!!

Can u tell me what it does to the numbers if you lower the correction factor to 1.00??? Me just being curious??? Thanks for posting this info up though man :)

Well the Correction Factor here is slightly diff from correction factor on a dyno. The correction factor of 1.09 is the correction factor to match a dynojet, and not for temp/pressure. With it set to 1, and the Smoothing still set to 10, the numbers are 234hp/278ft-lbs.
It is possible to set temperature & atmospheric pressure (which would be the equivilent of a correction factor most would be used to as inputted on a dyno).
With that turned on, and the temperature & baro pressure entered from around when we did the run (73.9 F and 29.6 in-Hg, I love Weather Underground lol), the numbers end up at 250hp and 298ft-lbs.

As for the smoothing (basicly just makes it look more like a dyno pull, as opposed to plotting data points and drawing lines between them), with that turned back down to 3 (the default), it reads 260hp, and 316ft-lbs.
And with smoothing set to 1 (which is pretty much just plotting the data points), we end up with this (this is the same data set at the first chart, except I didn't cut the top rpm to show down to 6500 in the software):

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/four999/vdyno2.jpg

I basicly upped the Smoothing until the curve was close to Bren's airboy chart without going too far over.
At the full opposite end of things, cranking Smoothing up to 20 (waaaay overkill), produces numbers reading 251hp and 293ft-lbs.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

Good stuff guys, it is surprisingly close to the airboy :).

The problem with road dyno is smoothing, some dyno ive seen guys run smoothing factor of 80, super smooth curve that you couldnt even see blatant knock on.

[Gearhead Geek]

Good stuff guys, it is surprisingly close to the airboy :).

The problem with road dyno is smoothing, some dyno ive seen guys run smoothing factor of 80, super smooth curve that you couldnt even see blatant knock on.

This software seems pretty good about it. Honestly with smoothing set to the default of 3 it produces a pretty nice curve. I just wanted to get it as close to yours (in terms of curve shape) as I could for comparison sake.

If you wanna check it out, the link is:
http://www.bradbarnhill.com/projects/VirtualDyno/
Pretty neat, and supports a lot of different cars :)
Oh, and huge props to Eric for finding this over "there" :lol:

[Gearhead Geek]

Oh, and Bren, as soon as I get back from my honeymoon, I'll be getting that GrimmSpeed & Fuel pump in. So sometime mid-October I'll be making another trip down :)

[BG @ BrenTuning]

here it is. i just used the 08 sti because the ratios are the same, and i adjusted the weight for my car, and added my weight plus the crap i have inside/fuel. also my 245/35's :D

http://www.newenglandsubarus.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=329448http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m194/star91281/newchart.jpg

I used the same log you sent me, i didn't add any extra weight though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/brenwrx/SPECB.jpg?t=1283822144[img][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Brendan/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png

and the log you sent me looked great - just like expected ;)

[BG @ BrenTuning]

PS boost curve on both your cars looks awesome :)

[shtbxr22]

yes!!

[BG @ BrenTuning]

back the weight down to 3650 and try your graph again.

[shtbxr22]

the only reason it was so high: car 3581+me183+gas100+crap in car50. i got the heaviest legacy remember. :(

[BG @ BrenTuning]

lets bolt it down at PSI this weekend. :D

[shtbxr22]

how much? i work til 3 on saturday.

[BG @ BrenTuning]

$100 with AFR/boost/more then 3 pulls and possible a magic man on hand for any necessary tweaks :)

[Gearhead Geek]

Since we're speaking of the weekend, any thoughts on Sunday Eric? (I know it's early on, just figured I'd ask :lol: )

[shtbxr22]

$100 with AFR/boost/more then 3 pulls and possible a magic man on hand for any necessary tweaks :)

and you are the magic man? :lol:

Since we're speaking of the weekend, any thoughts on Sunday Eric? (I know it's early on, just figured I'd ask :lol: )


I will know soon.

[Gearhead Geek]

and you are the magic man? :lol:

If he is, does that make you El Diablo? :rofl:

[shtbxr22]

SHAKE AND BAKE!!!!

[Gearhead Geek]

SHAKE AND BAKE!!!!

What does that do? Does that blow your mind? THAT JUST HAPPENED!

[shtbxr22]

it's amazing where we've gotten to. :lol: