Any Ford techs here, need help with VCT knock!

[SicRedGt]

My buddies F150, 5.4L 3 valve. Hedious knock coming from the VCT cam phasers at idle, already replaced both phasers. Need suggestions/help with this POS.

Thanks

[Dusty B]

What year is the truck. I used to be a ford tech and we had some problems with these motors when they were first starting to get used. I've been out of ford for 3 years though....

[katie.ims]

*pulls out duct tape* I am a certified Ford tech.

[SicRedGt]

It is an 06'. I followed the TSB for locating and diagnosing engine noises. It seems they have tappet and timing chain noise problems too.

The VCT phaser noise is gone above 1200rpm. I know these make some knocking noise which is normal, but this thing starts clacking and skipping like its going to puke a rod. Raise the rpm to 2000 and it goes away. It will stay quiet if you unplug the actuator soleniod at 2000 rpm.

[SicRedGt]

*pulls out duct tape* I am a certified Ford tech.

:lol:

FixOrRepairDaily.

[Dusty B]

It is an 06'. I followed the TSB for locating and diagnosing engine noises. It seems they have tappet and timing chain noise problems too.

The VCT phaser noise is gone above 1200rpm. I know these make some knocking noise which is normal, but this thing starts clacking and skipping like its going to puke a rod. Raise the rpm to 2000 and it goes away. It will stay quiet if you unplug the actuator soleniod at 2000 rpm.

Ok, so it is close to the begining.

You mean you unplug the actuator above 2k rpm and let it go back to idle and it's quiet??? That doesn't seem right if that's what you're describing.

That motor is noisey to begin with... I'm not questioning your diagnostic abilities at all, but you're positive it's from the phaser and not just transfering NVH?

[SicRedGt]

I'm quiet sure it's the phasers. The system is disabled when oil temp is low, or in open loop. During those modes the engine is perfectly quiet. When conditions are met, it switches from idle mode to drive mode at 1200rpm. You can drive all day and never hear a peep until you stop and idle with a hot engine. When I changed the phasers I did both banks, the pass side phaser fell apart when I removed the cam pulley bolt. I was 100% sure we had found the problem. I am familiar with "normal" VCT knock, this aint normal. Oil press is in spec, I have the recomended 5w-20 in there. No trouble codes either.

Trying to find how the system duty cycles the oil to the advance and retard oil ports is impossible. Something is happening in idle mode, possibly a problem in the actuator soleniod valve body? This engine has no abnormal valve train noise nor do the timing chain tensioners knock on start up. I have All Data, which is useless. I'm now thinking maybe the cam is off a tooth and the timing for the oil flow in and out is out of sync?

I'm about ready to try the duct tape suggestion.

[katie.ims]

*pushes duct tape towards your* Offer is still on the table.

[Dusty B]

I was just about to suggest being off a tooth also....

[ridered777]

:lol:

FixOrRepairDaily.


Found On Road Dead.

I'm a Ford Tech. *Pulls out car crusher* :devil:

[SicRedGt]

I was just about to suggest being off a tooth also....


I was thinking that too. I was hoping that someone who knows Fords would confirm that would cause it knock like that.

[Dusty B]

Well during my employement there I hadn't seen that condition on the 3-valve....

Doesn't mean it's not possible though.

[javasti2004]

have a vin #?

[javasti2004]

FORD:
2006 Mustang, Expedition, Explorer, F-150, F-250, F-350LINCOLN:
2006 Mark LT, NavigatorMERCURY:
2006 Mountaineer

ISSUE:

Some vehicles equipped with 4.6L, 5.4L, and 6.8L 3-valve engines built between 1/11/2006 and 2/14/2006 may exhibit a loud ticking noise in the valve train area. This may be caused by a stuck/collapsed lash adjuster.
ACTION:

Verify engine build date, isolate, and replace any stuck/collapsed lash adjuster by following the Service Procedure.
SERVICE PROCEDURE



Check date code on the engine, located on the engine timing cover.
Date code between 1/11/2006 and 2/14/2006, proceed to Step 2.
Date code NOT between 1/11/2006 and 2/14/2006, this TSB does not apply, perform normal diagnostics.

Isolate the source of the noise to the cam cover on either Bank 1 or Bank 2. If the noise is not isolated to either cam cover, this TSB does not apply. Follow normal Workshop Manual (WSM) procedures for additional diagnostics.
Remove the appropriate cam cover.
Check for stuck/collapsed lash adjuster(s) by placing the cam lobe on the base circle and inspecting for loose cam followers as a result of the lash adjuster plunger being bottomed out.
NOTE:A COLLAPSED LASH ADJUSTER WILL RESULT IN EXCESSIVE CLEARANCE BETWEEN THE LASH ADJUSTER AND THE CAM FOLLOWER.

NOTE:WHEN CHECKING "3V" LASH ADJUSTERS - A "SPONGY" LASH ADJUSTER IS NORMAL WHEN OIL PRESSURE IS "NOT" APPLIED.
Replace only the affected lash adjuster(s) on the affected bank(s) following the procedures outlined in the appropriate WSM, Section 303.

[javasti2004]

maybe look into that?

[javasti2004]

thats right of the tech website btw

[SicRedGt]

I have that tsb. We pulled the VC three times, they are all tight. You can hear the "normal" phaser knock when its idling quiet, then it slowly ramps up to a loud clank. Rev it once past 1200 and its gone instantly then slowly it will repeat this. I'm starting to suspect the chain is off a tooth or one of the oil passages for the phaser is blocked.

Effing thing is alien. Thanks for your input guys.

[javasti2004]

how warm isthe engine fully warmed up? cold? does it do it only on first start up after sitting alnight or everytime its in that rpm range? how many mile?

[SicRedGt]

Perfectly quiet cold, fully hot at idle it wil start clanking, raise the rpm above 1200 and it stops. Let it drop back to idle and it will slowly come back. You could drive the thing to FLA and back and never hear it as long as you don't stop and idle. (I drove it back from Maine, never heard the noise once until I came to a stop.) I ran it this weekend with no valve cover, def not valve train (oil splashing everywhere, lol). I think I need to pull the frt of the motor apart to check the cam timing next.

[SicRedGt]

Update; I talked to a Ford tech at the dealer near us, nice kid. He told me the cam chain is off a tooth and the phaser solenoid thingy is not activating the phaser at the correct time and thats what causes the noise.
Thanks for all you help NES!

[novacivic]

I know a permanent fix for it. Trade it in for a chevy.

[javasti2004]

I know a permanent fix for it. Trade it in for a chevy.


i thouht you said fix???:confused: